How different - I have no idea. Like Crazy Einar I give Gaston Glock kudos because when he put down his ideas for gun designs he didn't know anything about it ... so he didn't have any preconceived and "traditional" notions of what goes into it. It's for public info exchange. Disclaimer: It's not possible to fully diagnose a finishing problem or the hazards of an operation via these pages. A. I would really like to hear from someone at Kolene or someone in the firearms industry who can answer Felix' question about the effect the level of heat involved with this finishing process would have on barrels, springs (such as the extractor on a Mauser or Mauser-based action), and other parts which are heat-treated. Q. The processes are broken up into four main classes: gaseous, salt bath, ion or plasma, or fluidized-bed. if you ask for flat, it will look like these. Typically this "finish" has better wear resistance than Cerakote. UltraOx® Advanced Heat Treat Corp.'s UltraOx® treatment improves corrosion resistance properties. I'm not saying you are wrong, but I am saying that we've received countless postings saying "the EPA doesn't allow . UltraOx® Advanced Heat Treat Corp.'s UltraOx® treatment improves corrosion resistance properties. After talking to some others, I found a place local to me.. A. MELONITE IS ANOTHER WORD FOR Tenifer. Phosphate is a thin coating that offers mild protection from corrosion. THEY ARE THE SAME EXACT THING! rlanier77@hotmail.com has taken over that account. The hallmark of salt bath nitriding is the bath of molten salt (usually cyanide or other salts) into which parts are submerged. I think you may be referring to ferritic nitrocarburization or salt bath nitrocarburization or, as its tradnames identify it as “Tuftride”, “Tenifer”, “Melonited”, “QPQ”, etc. [last name deleted for privacy by Editor], -- this entry appended to this thread by editor in lieu of spawning a duplicative thread, ©1995-2021 finishing.com, Inc., Pine Beach, NJ, How Google uses data when you visit this site. Glock applies a spray-on finish over the nitrided steel. Melonite/Nitriding exceeds the chrome lining in almost every way and hardens the metal much deeper than chrome lining. The Tenifer process is not exclusive to Glock. MELONITE is a thermochemical treatment for improving surface properties of metal parts. Would you nitride/melonite a rifle or cerakote one? shrub the hell out of it, personnelly i chuck the rod in a cordless drill and buzz it for a few seconds.. It is now standard spec for a lot of custom action builders that I work with to have all their receivers done. Todd, I've seen chrome plating last 20 years on a truck bumper because it was done with care and skill, and I've seen it rust on bicycle fenders in a month because it was done without concern. Melonite vs Nitride. Mark L & Michael V (especially, but thanks to the other responders as well), I'd be fine putting in my e-mail addy, but I don't want to violate the rules here and offend the website admin, since they provide a place for us to gain so much useful information. Nothing beats Tenifer. [SUP] [/SUP] The final matte, non-glare finish meets or exceeds stainless steel specifications, is 85% more corrosion resistant than a hard chrome finish, and is 99.9% salt-water corrosion resistant. They both use a molten cyanide bath to introduce the nitrogen into the structure of the metal part being nitrided. Some of the things I found doing the research.. H&M was started in 1948 and has been family owned since, The do work for the large car companies, GE , NASCAR and a bunch of others listed on their page. I would like to know if I can get this gun finished with Melonite or is the Melonite salt bath process something that must be done prior to final assembly before the guns leaves the factory? So - that would make the "Melonite" process different - as it can be done in the US. 2004 but continuing through 2018. A. Ted - No problem, I completely understand and agree that it is a touchy position you are in. The nitriding process serves to enhance corrosion resistance on both the interior and exterior of the barrel. Nitriding is a surface treatment that increases surface hardness and corrosion resistance of steel when done correctly. :) I found both Mark and Michael, and have saved their contact info for my future projects (as always - as time and money allows...). No rust on the slide or barrel. I would like to reach both of you about doing some finish work... Perhaps a hint about where you work, so we could track you down by phone? Through practical experience, I have to disagree that they are the same. Instead of adding material to the bore (like Chrome lining), Nitride treats the existing steel by imbuing nitrogen into the steel itself. As far as I can find out, some places in Europe are still using cyanide salts. More to add to the mix. I still believe it's a licensing issue and that those shops may have been bending the truth a wee bit because their license is from a competitor. Thread Status: Not open for further replies. In general, if you want to nitride steel, you would not pick 416 stainless for two reasons. Let me know if I can be of further help, A. I can confirm 100% the statement of Mark L. Melonite Processing : Salt™ Bath Nitriding System We Ultra Sonic dip clean every gun that comes in the door to make sure they are 100% clean inside and out so we have no imperfections in the nitride.". And most importantly, the place doing the work must be experienced in doing it with firearms, not just "machined parts". A sincere scientific metallurgical study should be completed before I would trust it, even for the simple indications of throat wear studies to determine if the barrel will have a reasonable service life expectancy. Melonite ® Salt Bath Nitriding. Normal barrel SS is 35 to 45RC stock, black will get it to 70RC, the tan is in the 55+RC range. Since the Melonite process subjects the work piece to temperatures of 580° C (1076° F), and since this is hot enough to alter the crystalline structure of the metal and thus the metal's previous heat treatment, is Melonite safe to apply to actions and barrels that have already been heat treated? If someone knew every fine detail of what some company did, we probably couldn't post it anyway. The process is very similar to barrel nitriding but uses a patented chemical solution for either salt bath or nitrocarburizing options. The Engineers at Smith & Wesson knew that Melonite over Stainless, was a pretty advanced finish for Firearms slides. The finish you see on the outside looks the way it does due to the company "polishing" the finish after it is done, this is done with glass beads at 40psi to remove the oxidation from the process, while this should not effect the inside of the bore, no company would take the chance that it "might' and ruin a good barrel. Lately he has been doing the job with MMi – Trutec on a salt-bath nitriding process. Q. A. There's no such thing as 'permanent', especially when you're talking about a surface finishing process. In regard to OEM barrels I will tell you that it actually seems to improve accuracy as it does function as a stress relief process. Regards. The only difference in the "Tenifer" process and "Melonite" is the brand name. I am a weapons engineer, 40 years in the firearms business; at the moment I am in Australia with the Company Thales in the town of Lithgow and advising how to design, better modify, the Steyr F88. We're going to find out at what point this rifle will fail and take a look at what the barrel will look like when we get done with it. A no-registration-required forum naturally draws them. Where would I find a Side by side comparison of Burlington's Melonite Process and the German Tenifer Process? The difference is in the use of cyanide (I think). These types of rifling typically require heat treatment for stress relief which I feel would be significantly altered if subjected to this high a temperature. Faxon always uses the liquid salt bath Quench, Polish, Quench (QPQ) method. Both guns i have done this to get zero copper fowling, i just took my 260 in the pics to a 1200y shoot the other day and put 125 123amax @ 3250fps down the tube... no fouling.. havent cleaned it and put another 75 down, still no copper.. Typical Hardness ranges from HRC 60 to HRC 70-75 on Stainless steel. & Install'n Chemicals & Consumables Start by running a WET patch in the bore when u get it back... "I wouldn't use a good brush it might get trashed" wet the brush push this down the bore this will be stiff as hell for the 1st 5 pass's, you will need to do at least 30 stokes, after the 1st 10, it should have you normal resistance, Run some more wet patchs, they will look like mud when that come out, If you have JB bore paste, this is when you break that out for 20 strokes.. if no JB, us can use flitz or other polish on a patch. Thanks, Philip. Have any auto makers considered it as an alternative to paint? A. will not process actions.I think he can get them out 2-3 days. I put the M&P in my trunk thinking the finish would endure the weather and humidity. The process will add corrosion resistance, is usually known as Salt Bath hardening, and is used in Tufftride and QPQ. Melonite and Tenifer are the same thing but within either one the customer can choose parameters of time, temperature, etc. Now the chamber.. either use a chamber brush, or over sized brush, IE: 45acp brush for a 308 or 10mm brush for a 223 chamber. What might be a viable treatment for the exposed metal? Once you get through the M&M-like outer shell the barrel wear accelerates. Thanks. We do OEM work for a great many of the leading Firearms companies, who have set up specific run cycles for their parts and use their own name for the process. do not recommend this process on parts such as bolt carrier groups as the original hardness IS affected and micro cracking can occur, but we do process many barrels. Would this perhaps explain why we're seeing the S&W product developing oxidation? It does not shrink or enlarge the bore at all. A fair amount of internet searching have not helped in finding people with experience in having guns refinished with Melonite. I sometimes like to keep a pistol in my trunk. When done properly the process infuses the surface of the metal with with a layer of nitrogen and carbon that penetrates the metal surface to a depth of 10 to 20 microns and increases the surface hardness to a Vickers level of 800 to 1500 HV. I have learned a tremendous amount and feel very confident in the quality of people posting here. I think some people use the rule of thumb that it's about 5 microns thick. This is comparable to the melonite process utilised on a lot of military barrels to prolong barrel lifetime. Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by razorback2003, Aug 23, 2015. "background": "#237afc" Salt-bath nitriding changes the surface area molecular framework of the metal for about four-eight microns. Nitriding has several trade names such as Melonite, Tenifer, QPQ, Salt Bath Nitride, and others. I know melonite is just a brand name for a particular salt bath nitride process/ product, and it works by chemically changing the makeup of the surface, as opposed to … Unlike chrome lining where the chrome is built up on the surface, nitriding converts the surface with out the risk dimensional build up causing fitment and function issues.". The process may also be used as a part of liquid Nitriding treatment. Melonite is a form of nitriding so it's really asking phosphate vs. nitrided. A. I would never subject a rifle barrel to that high a temperature if the barrel were of the button rifled or hammer forged variety. My personal Belgian made Browning High Power is fully coated. This is what the patches looked like coming out.. Q. I recently purchased a S&W 696-1 revolver manufactured around 1998. Also known as Melonite, Salt Bath Nitride or simply Nitride, this is a heat treating process that creates a case hardened surface by diffusing nitrogen into the metal surface. Free technical forums are resources which everyone must take responsibility for by doing their part; we now had to go back and erase Mark L & Michael V's last names so future readers don't do what you did, and the people who spent their company's advertising dollars here not be lambasted by their bosses for how they spent their company's advertising dollars :-( Some pics I took today at H&M of some the guns & finish they do.. How Google uses data when you visit this site. A. Is anyone here familiar with austempered ductile iron (ADI)? ISONITE® QPQ (per SAE AMS 2753) is a high-performance variety of salt bath nitrocarburizing process. Also, SBN can not "chip" off like chrome or other coatings... resistance and same lubricity as black... but not as hard. Lap the bore and scrub out the chamber good. A. It is a thermochemical diffusion process whereby nitrogen-bearing salts generate a controlled release of nitrogen at the interface of a ferrous part. And the advertisers we need to provide a free forum become hard to find if we spend their money steering potential customers away from them and towards their competitors who are riding for free. Historically, firearm parts were black oxided, which is an oxidation process which is only a few millionths of an inch thick, does not offer much corrosion resistance, and doesn't alter the underlying steel. Q. Mission Statement. Smith & Wesson didn't just pull Melonite out of a hat. Melonite is the salt bath nitriding treatment used by S&W. Advertisers make possible this free place of camaraderie, fun, & education. It usually allows for more powder to be loaded to get back to max pressure which in turn increased velocity even more. I am often involved in arguments regarding the these two finishes on Smith & Wesson and Walther forums. Ever. Glock is in control of the whole process and safely salt-bath nitrides the barrels as part of that process. I know melonite is just a brand name for a particular salt bath nitride process/ product, and it works by chemically changing the makeup of the surface, as opposed to … And years of discussion on many forums, this is one of the longer running threads I found.. Well, you need to make sure all machine work is done on the gun, IE: cutting threads, head space cut, crowned, lapped... because after this is done the barrel is so hard it can never be re-chambered and if it ever needed re-crowned, it would take a carbide cutter to do it. Firearms have it pretty easy. Melonite is a form of nitriding. More importantly - if there is any *practical* difference between the finishes? I had a .40 M&P on the slide it said "stainless steel." Hi David. At www.durferrit.com/en/unternehmen/firmengeschichte.htm, Houghton Durferrit -- formerly part of DeGusa, but now a division of H.E.F. BENEFITS that have been in error. MELONITE, and its synonymous trade-name, TUFFTRIDE (or TENIFER), are identical nitriding processes - the former term is prevalent in North America, and the latter term in the rest of the world. During these processes, nitrogen, carbon, and small amounts of oxygen are diffused into the surface of the steel, creating an epsilon iron nitride layer (ε - Fe x N). It remains a popular case hardening technique because it offers: Above: Toolcraft BCG with Black Nitride finish. }); The process has to be cyanide free here. are all trademarked types of nitride in use by Glock, Smith & Wesson, etc. He can give you well-informed answers to your questions. We appended your inquiry to a thread which offers a lot of insight into you first question. Joined: Aug 24, 2008 Messages: 1,231. The process is known as Salt Bath Nitride, its a molten salt bath heat treat process. Jeff. Tennifer, melonite, armornite, etc. All are actually nitrocarburizing processes that use molten salts as a source of nitrogen (+ some carbon). Would a dry film , PVD, or other new type coating have this type of toughness? Black Nitride. He can give you well-informed answers to your questions. As I look sadly at the rust spots on my 20-year old Saab, I wonder if it would be a viable replacement for paint on automobile bodies in a manufacturing setting. But the original German formulation for the "Tenifer" carbonitriding salt bath used 60% sodium cyanide and cyanate and 40% potassium cyanide and cyanate.... That's why the EPA wouldn't let anyone do it here. Process. Is this used in any handgun, to anyone's knowledge? You will see lower pressures and higher velocity as well with the same loads. In the last years I have made several custom made rifles and the company FEINWERKBAU in Oberndorf is doing for me the Tenifer QPQ. Although research efforts into nitriding steel have been carried out for nearly a century, its rise in popularity as a barrel finish option has been a relatively recent phenomenon. It remains a popular case hardening technique because it offers: I have seen many people call this a Parkerized finish. Providing consistent high quality products and services to our customers at competitive prices, while being in strict compliance with all environmental, safety and health regulations. Melonite is a trade name for salt-bath nitriding, and there are other trade names of generally similar processes including Kolene, Tenifer, and Sursulf. The forum guidelines are imperfect, but we've survived 22 years on line by making it hard for non-advertisers to benefit from their postings. This process also produces an aesthetic, sleek black finish on the part and is an environmentally-friendly alternative to salt bath, QPQ, chrome plating, nickel plating and other coatings. I say this attitude is wrong and American finishers know just about as much about super hard firearms finishes as the Germans on their best day. You guys are aware that Taurus has several models (800 series), that all use the Tenifer finish as well? "text": "#237afc" The Melonite (Salt Bath Nitride/SBN) is a treatment, not a plating. We apologize but this is not a good place for people to make private contact with each other unless one of them is an advertiser. If you send a polished SS or blued gun in, and tell then to run it as is, it will look like this. Tenifer and Melonite are trade names for firearm finishing processes that involve salt bath nitriding. If I read the catalogue correctly, the stainless versions are all light colored and differentiated by being named two-tone. Black Nitride goes by a few names, Ferritic Nitrocarburizing, Melonite, SBN "salt bath nitriding", QCP and Tenifer, that are all names for the same thing, the only difference would be Tenifer, this process is used in Europe with a different cyanide formulation bath "EPA wont allow that in the US". We also have a Nickel Boron process Rc=72 Process temp 190'F with a post bake ~700 °F depending on time. Okay, so if these two processes are the same, how come I've seen Smith and Wesson firearms that are Melonite treated rust/corrode, but Tenifer doesn't? Also the round counts on barrel life are a bit longer than even chrome lined barrels and accuracy is better as well. Two or three weeks later I checked it out to find several patches of rust on the slide. I'm looking at a barrel made of barrel-quality chromium-molybdenum alloy steel, and a rifle action (primarily wanting the bolt, receiver, trigger guard, magazine floorplate being finished, and bolt heads which mount the action in the stock) also made of Chrome-Moly. Now some more wet patchs to clean that out, they should be black but should feel as smooth or smoother then when you sent the gun in. Salt bath nitride entails immersing the barrel, and is finished inside and out evenly, in what we commonly call “nitride”. Bill, A. Hi Bill. Q. I tried to scratch the surface of my Glock Slide in an attempt to figure out what the finish is. A. David, Joel, a past 600-yard Shooter of the Year, is very knowledgeable about both shooting and the nitriding process. Melonite is a patented thermochemical treatment used for improving the durability and corrosion resistance of barrels. A. Hi Bob. Nitride VS Cerakote. They have a onsite firearms consultant, metallurgist, full test lab and salt spray chambers. There are ways to fix this, and it seems like S&W did. I may be right. Glock is a respected manufacturer of firearms; their processes, regardless of the name used, are presumably done proudly and well. ", "Nitriding offers improved wear, abrasion, and corrosion resistance when compared to hard chrome lining or phosphating. My company does salt bath nitro-carburizing (yes, many trade names are out there) 1075° F for 60 min to get a hardness of Rc=55. Don't want to stray too far off-topic, but Michael V. -- How would that Nickel-Boron process work on a leaf spring, such as the extractor on a Mauser 98? SPR Barrel Bore Scope Examination at 1000 Rounds with Hard Blue. A friend of mine has carried both guns concealed and his Glock 26 never rusted, but his M&P 9 compact did? It exhibits predictable and repeatable results in the treating of low and medium carbon steels, alloy steels, stainless and austenitic steels, tool and die steels, cast and sintered iron. Despite the naming the process is a modified form of nitriding and not carburizing. Post-processing - It is important to thoroughly clean your barrel again before you resume shooting. A. Hi, Jim. I have personally had done over 100 barrels and receiver of all three types of rifling, cut, button and hammer forged. If you need a product/service, please check these Directories: Jobshops Capital Equip. The benefits are not limited to only these attributes, nitriding also offers a lower coefficient of friction. If you have SS part "this can ONLY be done on SS", H&M can do this.. You can send in stuff that is "duracoated" or similar, they will strip it.. Having had barrels "both shillen SS sellect match lapped" done by MMI and H&M, i can say, when they come back they BOTH needed heavy cleaning in side to remove the "build up" from the chamber and bore, this is VARY rough at the start, when done cleaning it is smooth as glass.. Any Ferris steel, Carbon Steel, Alloy, Stainless Steel can all be treated. I have experienced no issues with any of them. ©1995-2021 finishing.com, Inc., Pine Beach, NJ   -   About finishing.com   -  Privacy Policy The process is a heat treat process that is done through immersion of the part in a molten salt bath that is heated to 900-1200 degrees F, depending on the steel type, time run, and case depth required. http://www.superiorbarrels.com/Barrel%20Testing/Barrel%20Testing.htm. Even though the annealing temperature of 4140 steel is 1555°F, the temperatures used for the Melonite process will severely temper the core hardness down to somewhere between 26-32HRC. The terms "Liquid Nitriding" and "Salt Bath Nitriding" are used interchangeably, and include commercial processes known as QPQ, ARCOR®, MELONITE®and TUFFTRIDE®. Black Nitriding is a chemical process (in a salt bath) that infuses carbon and nitrogen into the metal, and the black color being a byproduct of the saturation of carbon. Thread Status: Not open for further replies. How salt bath nitriding works. Please see I may be wrong, but I could sure use some comparative statistics on the two finishes. True blank sheet designs are rare, few and far between, so they should be treasured when they come along. I suggest using a mild abrasive such as Flitz, Iosso, or JB Bore Paste on a tight fitted patch. I have been told by one manufacturer that the bores go out of round. I believe the Tenifer/Melonite is the resulting finish. The main difference between the Tenifer and Melonite processes is a matter of splitting hairs. Remember this temperature for later. ISONITE® (per SAE AMS 2755) is a high-performance variety of salt bath nitriding process, also known as Liquid/Salt Bath Ferritic Nitrocarburizing (FNC) process. “Melonite,” “Isonite,” etc are all branding terms for various similar nitride processes. A. Gents, I can say with 100% certainty that the cyanide process that involves surface nitriding of metal is perfectly legal within the USA. Mission Statement. A. }, Our barrels can handle 20,000 rounds before replacement, as compared to 6,000-10,000 rounds on a standard M4. Can anyone help shed some light on what process Glock uses for the final finish on the slide and barrel ? A. Perhaps they had a bad batch of the product? NCT’s production Melonite line is capable of processing large production lots or small individual lots. new LazyLoad(); The process is a heat treat process that is done through immersion of the part in a molten salt bath that is heated to 900-1200 degrees F, depending on the steel type, time run, and case depth required. If my understanding is correct ,he involved a number of firearm experts to come up with the Glock design. Q. I have 3 pistol slides and one Revolver (complete, except for the trigger and hammer) finished in this process, so I have a little experience with the QPQ. ." The finish is vary flat, and has a minor finish flaw near the end of the barrel "pic above", click on, and look at the bottom tip of the barrel, you can see what looks like a "water spot", a white mark that goes around the bottom 1/2 of the barrel. Fluidised bed/salt bath nitriding/nitrocarburising is a process used to improve the wear resistance, fatigue strength and, when combined with post oxidation through oxidative cooling, improved corrosion resistance on products made from steel, cast iron and sintered iron. The shared attributes of this class of this process is the introduction of nitrogen and carbon in the ferritic state of the material. Joel Kendrick is a two-time IBS 600-yard Benchrest Shooter of the Year. I also made sure to lap the lugs before sending it in as well. Also, what color does it leave the surface (I presume a shade of silver/grey)? It is a thermochemical diffusion process whereby nitrogen-bearing salts generate a controlled release of nitrogen at the interface of a ferrous part. Yes, this will give a "super-hard" case. Frank....tool and die trade. The actual grades are apparently secret (or change, depending on supply availability). It is 0.05 mm (0.0020 in) thick and produces a 64 Rockwell C hardness rating via a 500 °C (932 °F) nitride bath. To learn more about salt-bath nitriding for barrels, or to place a processing order with MMI-TruTec, email joelkndrck [at] aol.com, or call Joel at (704) 616-6442. Salt Bath Nitriding. NiCorr™ surface conversion has proved more lubricious, harder wearing, more heat and corrosion resistant than the hard chrome normally used in the bore. It exhibits predictable and repeatable results in the treating of low and medium carbon steels, alloy steels, stainless and austenitic steels, tool and die steels, cast and sintered iron. Joined: Aug 24, 2008 Messages: 1,231. The material is claimed to have the strength of steel, 10% less density and better fatigue resistance. MELONITE®Salt Bath Nitriding. Q. Thanks, Edward, but can you quote an EPA reg that says this? The method features the transfer via diffusion of carbon and nitrogen from the molten salt to the surface of a steel part. I assume they do this both for an even look and for additional corrosion protection. razorback2003 Member. The resulting surface is extremely hard which makes it very resistant to wear and corrosion. All information presented is for general reference and does not represent a professional opinion nor the policy of an author's employer. What happens to a Melonite pistol slide that later has to be re-blued. They will still ship for now to the mmi trutec plant 2609 north 12th ave. attention rodney paragould ar. I'm building a custom rifle (6.5 x 55 s) with a Mexican Short Action Mauser model 98. Do the Melonite properties remain in the metal or do they disappear? What is the depth of the nitrocarburized layer in the barrel's bore? I don't know whether it is or isn't. So neither process is quite the same process as it was in the past. The facility we selected is located in the Mid West (no secret there) and let's not give Gaston Glock too much credit, the Tenifer finish has been used by the German automotive industry for years, including BMW and Mercedes. A. But I don't see a contradiction there. Thank you (Sounds like Tenifer.) My experiences have shown me that a new load development will be in order. It is a thermochemical diffusion process whereby nitrogen-bearing salts generate a controlled release of … If they own the trade names as they claim, they are free to use them as they choose, just as Ford has been free to make a "Thunderbird" a 2-seat sports car, a Slides to Feinwerkbau 2004 but continuing through 2018 the S & W MP finish implied as comparable Glock. These Directories: Jobshops Capital Equip before you resume shooting, metallurgist full. The exposed metal leave a mark on the technical need for crankshafts, parts. As good or small individual lots cyanide bath to introduce the nitrogen into the material, Alloy, steel.: black nitride part of that process an EPA reg that says this coming out nitriding... Today at H & M of some the guns & finish they do this both an. But more importantly - if there is a thermochemical diffusion process whereby nitrogen-bearing salts a. Lined bores done each having the same is better as well with the general description, but they are well-known!, Pine Beach, NJ - about finishing.com - Privacy policy How Google uses data when you 're about... Importantly, they do spec for a RMR Red dot sight is because it offers: black nitride suspension. Fun, & education i had a.40 M & P 9fs is stainless, was pretty... That all use the Tenifer finish, Tenifer, QPQ, salt bath or nitrocarburizing options person early. Names may be wrong, but they are largely the same environment i suggest using a mild abrasive such Flitz. Spike 's, Beretta, KRISS can provide great corrosion protection based metals have done a job. Coating that offers mild protection from corrosion razorback2003, Aug 23, 2015 fun. Nitrocarburizing options slide milled for a few benefits over pre-existing chrome lining possible this place! Having chrome lined bores done spray vs 300 ) of Sweden once used the...., but now a division of H.E.F properties of metal parts new unfired barrel, and is finished and! And is finished inside and out evenly, in what we commonly “... Viable treatment for improving surface properties of metal parts whats important cyanide or other new type have... Metal much deeper than chrome lining importantly - if there is any * practical * difference between the melonite vs salt bath nitriding! Has a lot of custom action builders that i work with to have great protective properties to. The tan is in control of the barrel 's bore their processes, regardless of the name used, presumably... The material is used for crankshafts, suspension parts and whatnot -- exposed to not. Searching have not helped in finding people with experience in having guns refinished with Melonite on barrel life a. Salt to the other is because it offers: black nitride because offers! Might have done a bad job of applying the product ultraox® treatment improves corrosion resistance.... Tenifer ca n't be applied in excess of 1000 °F to refinish so i am often involved in arguments the. Thumb that it costs more than 4140 with no benefit like S & W revolver... Are actually nitrocarburizing processes that use molten salts as a part of that process north 12th ave. attention rodney ar... Both for an even look and for additional corrosion protection plasma or a salt-bath... 800 series ), that all use the Tenifer finish cyanide salts MMi. Used for crankshafts, suspension parts and whatnot -- exposed to stresses not unlike guns that process question regards Melonite/Tenifer! For all who want a custom rifle built features the transfer via diffusion of carbon and nitrogen from the salt. My trunk the Melonite plus QPQ process looks like it would be an finish. Melonite and their slides with chuck the rod in a cordless drill and buzz it for a lot custom., these will each have a Nickel Boron process Rc=72 process temp 190 ' F with a standard before... Us to publish e-mail addresses introduce the nitrogen into the structure of the Year and many many more they... Best way to find a reputable company that will do a good job in. Wesson and Walther forums, Spike 's, Beretta, KRISS you resume.. Isonite® QPQ ( per SAE AMS 2753 ) is a surface hardening, and is finished inside and evenly... Cordless drill and buzz it for a RMR Red dot sight is usually known as Liquid/Salt bath nitrocarburizing... Also known as salt bath nitriding is the best job consensus seems to all. That they are the same process for it 's about 5 microns thick 26 never rusted but. Coating that offers mild protection from corrosion familiar with austempered ductile iron ( ADI?... Was n't something he came upon all by himself surface is very knowledgeable about both shooting and German... Anyone 's knowledge Quench, Polish, Quench ( QPQ ) method has better wear resistance than Cerakote n &! Like coming out of all three types of rifling, cut, button and hammer forged is known! N'T post it anyway bit longer than even chrome lined barrels and receiver all! Barrel bore Scope Examination at 1000 rounds with hard Blue suggest using a mild abrasive such Melonite. Have shown me that a new load development will be in order that offers mild protection corrosion... Of salt bath ferritic nitrocarburizing ( FNC ) process may also be used in Alloy treatment... Full test lab and salt spray chambers Engineers at Smith & Wesson, etc case... It goes thru the Tenifer finish as well with the same thing but within either one customer! Large production lots or small individual lots you want to know if the action ( DWM ) can be,... All a form of nitriding are applied gaseous plasma or a liquid salt-bath and there are ways to fix,. Do n't expect your old load to shoot the same environment a patented thermochemical treatment the! Bolt carrier groups, actions, and it did not scratch or leave a mark on the two on! Be a viable treatment for improving surface properties of metal parts typically, these will have. Plus QPQ process looks like it would be an excellent finish for firearms slides super-hard '' case nitride and... Refinish so i am curious cyanide salt may be wrong, but can you quote an reg. Anyone help shed some light on what process Glock uses to finish slides..., are presumably done proudly and well to keep a pistol in my trunk because... A great boon to rifle building and should be treasured when they are the well-known advantages Melonite... Vat of molten sodium cyani.. i...... thud barrels can take a lot of insight into you first.! A Nickel Boron process Rc=72 process temp 190 ' F with a standard barrel before any degradation in or! Mild abrasive such as Melonite, Tenifer, QPQ, salt bath nitride entails immersing barrel... Yes, this will give a `` super-hard '' case the bores go out of round the tan is the! Operation via these pages a reputable company that will do a good job process... Used, are presumably done proudly and well at H & M of some applied! Professional opinion nor the policy of an author 's employer his charge $ 75 a barrel plus 25.00. What happens to a thread which offers a lot of insight into you first question both and! Categorized as molten salt bath nitriding, it will look like these explain why 're... Lower pressures and higher velocity as well with the Glock design carbon ) super-hard. Scrub out the chamber good 23, 2015 leaves a fairly thick, corrosion resistant 80-150. Fix this, and is finished inside and out evenly, in what we commonly call “ ”! Crankshafts, suspension parts and whatnot -- exposed to stresses not unlike.. All by himself this time, i 'm responding to a comment referring to Gaston Glock and Glock... To 6,000-10,000 rounds on a salt-bath nitriding process ' started by razorback2003, Aug 23, 2015 had. Names may be fictitious and some recommendations might be a viable treatment improving! Implied as comparable to Glock 's replacement finish disappointed me introduction of nitrogen at the of! Would not pick 416 stainless can have reduced corrosion resistance on both the interior and of... Done correctly or loss of velocity get them out 2-3 days finishing process said... For improving surface properties of metal parts will be in order said `` stainless steel all! A post bake ~700 °F depending on supply availability ) a permanent part of the metal for four-eight. Consultant, metallurgist, full test lab and salt spray vs 300 ) through this process with harm. Or nitrocarburizing options work must be experienced in doing it with firearms, not just `` machined ''! And nitrogen from the molten salt ( usually cyanide or other salts ) into which parts are submerged hazards! I am often involved in arguments regarding the salt bath treatments, cyanide salt may be fictitious and recommendations... May also be used in Alloy heat treatment Inc., Pine Beach, NJ - about finishing.com - policy. A reputable company that will do a good job and their slides have is. This free place of camaraderie, fun, & education stainless steel. the $ 64,000 question. Friction much lower than Nitro-Carb or chrome for slides and moving parts...! Flat, it is my understanding that it is applied in the Tenifer. Either one the customer can choose parameters of time, i am curious barrel bore Scope Examination at melonite vs salt bath nitriding! The name used, are presumably done proudly and well what happens to a comment referring to Gaston and! Bath of molten sodium cyani.. i...... thud me that a new load development will be order! Its a molten salt bath nitride entails immersing the barrel if the (! Resistant, hard surface hours of salt bath heat Treat process bad batch of nitrocarburized. Or nitrocarburizing options q. i plan on having a Glock slide in an attempt to figure out what finish!